#Modian the Nosferatu

[robotslenderman]

Dove character analysis

An analysis on Dove, her Nictuku traits, and how they ended up making her resembling the Cappadocians so strongly that her own sire thought she was one somehow.

I always assumed Dove and Modian were close because Dove was clearly distressed when she saw Modian in the condition he was in in the video.

But I was going through the VTMNR code to see the things she tells you about herself that I missed when I was playing that scene, and got to this bit:

"But when he saw my face, he thought he had been tricked," Dove says, her tone bleak. "He said I resembled one of the extinct clans, and treated me like a red-headed stepchild. Imagine that: too ugly to be a Nosferatu. I made my own way then, met up with Jasper Knowles, the Warlock, while he was digging through ruins for old magic, and through him ended up becoming a respectable member of the Camarilla. I didn't see Modian again for a century, when I came to the New World." 

So this started out as an analysis on how Modian must have recognised Nictuku traits in Dove (they are descended from Nictuku, a bloodline of Nosferatu that are blood bound to Absimilliard, the Nosferatu Antediluvian, and sworn to destroy the Nosferatu. If you trace Reremouse’s family tree, the Methuselah they’re descended from was a known Nictuku defector). The Nictuku are said to be particularly hideous, like Dove --

Imagine that: too ugly to be a Nosferatu. 

And a lot of people don’t believe they exist.

He said I resembled one of the extinct clans

So I thought that the Nictuku blood came out really strongly with Dove, Modian realised it, and freaked the fuck out.

But the “one of the extinct” clans didn’t quite fit (people either believe they exist or don’t, but they never talk about them being extinct), and there was a mention of the Giovanni wanting to put Dove down:

"Jasper was interested in another act of diablerie, the one that birthed Clan @{(clan = "Hecata") Giovanni. This was way before you all joined back up with the other necromancers|Giovanni—this was before the death clans all reunited to form Clan Hecata}. He was interested in me because he wondered if I wasn't a Nosferatu at all, but one of the now-extinct clans. Of course, I had been Embraced by Modian in the normal fashion, my dark arts were those of my clan, and Jasper's hypothesis came to nothing…but that wasn't before a bunch of Giovanni learned about me and tried to destroy me because they thought I was a harbinger of their destruction. To escape them, we jumped onto the Simplon-Orient-Express in Constantinople, and there we ran into this Polish Gangrel…anyway, that was all a long time ago."

So I thought. Huh. Maybe the Giovanni have links to the Nictuku?

Then I remembered what clan the Giovanni are descended from. Cappadocians. Whose bane were that they looked like corpses.

Boom. Turns out the Nictuku to the Giovanni’s Nosferatu are the Harbingers of Skulls, whose weakness --

The Harbingers of Skulls clan weakness is an extension of the Cappadocian clan's weakness. Regardless of the quantity of blood a Harbinger of Skulls consumes, their skin maintains a deathly pallor. Additionally, the Harbingers' skin shrinks to make these Cainites appear skeletal, with bony limbs and faces frozen into an immortal death's grin. Because of this decidedly unwholesome and morbid visage, Harbingers of Skulls have Appearance Traits of zero. All Social rolls involving the Appearance Trait automatically fail for Harbingers of Skulls. 

 -- are that they look skeletal. Just like Dove.

And like the Nictuku with the Nosferatu, they want to fuck Giovanni shit up. They’re pissed about what the Giovanni did to the Cappadocians.

So the Giovanni see this Nosferatu with a skull for a face, freak the fuck out, and try to murder her.

Modian Embraces a childe, the Nictuku genes come out strongly --

Additionally, age is difficult and transforming on the bloodline. For every hundred years since their Embrace, the Hungry become more monstrous in appearance. But their physical bodies also grow stronger, until they reach the peak of human (and vampiric) physical potential. They grow slowly but decidedly bent, twisted, and ever more deadly, slowly aging grotesques that blame the Nosferatu for their condition. 

-- but to the extent that happens to resemble a Cappadocian. Modian freaks out, is like “what the fuck, you’re clearly not mine” even though he was there, so poor Dove gets basically orphaned.

The Nictuku weakness doesn’t quite fit Dove. Nictuku need Cainite blood to feed, not kine. Dove might have been feeding on Cainites this whole time and kept it secret, but a Nosferatu courier doesn’t make any mention of having to do that, so I think it’s safe to assume Dove doesn’t. Also, there’s no mention that Dove gets uglier each century in spite of being Embraced ~1830. But she’s definitely Nictuku because she’s descended from Melachoate, which we find out in the Reremouse chapter.

But who knows. Maybe that weakness gets weaker as your generation gets higher. Maybe Jasper was feeding her the vitae of his victims -- she knew he experimented on wights, there’s a flashback where she’s casually chatting to him while standing over an entire pit of them. But that still doesn’t explain why her childe doesn’t seem to have that weakness either.

So. Dove has Nictuku blood, it came out stronger in her than Modian (and presumably Reremouse), Modian freaked, and it basically caused a rift between them so she ended up raised by Jasper instead.

Which is... interesting. Because she is visibly upset at seeing what Jasper did to Modian, but not upset at seeing Jasper get destroyed.

But it might explain why Jasper chose to wight Modian. Dove never trusted him, and maybe he was far from magnamious when he wighted Modian.

But I dunno. Maybe he was pissed off that Modian basically rejected his own childe.

And it makes me wonder -- Dove often speaks about how restless she is and how trapped she feels. Another Nictuku weakness, beside the hideousness and the inability to take sustenance from kine blood, is what might be claustrophobia:

The Hungry will not haven where they cannot see the moon when they rise and leave each night.  [...] They loathe the underground and will not haven there. Ever. This may be related to, or the cause of, the Nosferatu desire to dig.

Dove gets really edgy about not driving, about not getting to leave the city -- essentially about not getting to be in wide open space. We never see her underground, or see any mention of her ever being underground.

She also seems to have a very lowkey manifestation of the Nictuku hatred of the Nosferatu, in that she’s constantly at odds with them.

Firstly, she’s at odds with Modian. Sure, that’s because of his rejection of her -- but Modian is also at odds with her. He was present at her Embrace, there’s no reason for him to think she’s not his, but he does.

Secondly, the way she talks about the Nosferatu is nothing but critical.

"Back in the '80s, some of the younger Nosferatu discovered the internet, and found a new place to hide and hoard secrets. [..] They got online by the dozens, and then by the hundreds, establishing a shadow internet for the undead. I warned them not to do it."

The Nictuku despise the Nosferatu. Dove, who has their blood in her veins, although very diluted, doesn’t hate them. But she doesn’t respect them, either.

"But those Nosferatu, they'd look at themselves in the mirror and see the same ugly, unchanging face as when they were first Embraced. And they'd tell themselves, 'I still have the edge."

She’s like this even with her own childe. You can save her life when you last see her, but when you show up at Elysium she is all but obvious with her dislike of you. She sees another Nosferatu, even a Nictuku one, and seems to have this instinctive, lowkey revulsion of them that she attributes to other things. (She claims the Courier abandoned her, but made no effort to reach out to them despite knowing where they were, and the Courier being completely ignorant of where she was.)

And it’s just. fascinating. And so very sad. She’s this lost little chick who knows, deep down, that her bloodline isn’t the same as other Nosferatu, and it comes out in such subtle ways. And yet it comes out in one glaringly obvious respect -- her face.

[ryttu3k]

So what actually separates the Nosferatu and the Nictuku anyway? Is it a generational thing or just an evolutionary offshoot of sorts? I know that Baba Yaga is supposed to be the origin of the modern Nosferatu, but then we meet Reremouse and Vole who are both regular nossies while their sire Rasalon is apparently Nictuku. It’s quite the conundrum honestly.

It's an ancestry thing. 'The Matriarch', believed to be either Medusa or Baba Yaga, is the fourth gen ancestor of all modern Nosferatu, although it's possible there are other, non-Nictuku offspring of Absimiliard who also Embraced. Of the known Nictuku, Melachoate is the only one who's ever Embraced, and his childe Androvikus was the one to pass on the message to his childe, Rasalon, that not all the Nictuku were monstrous. What was different about Androvikus? What was different about Melachoate, even, in that he Embraced anyone in the first place, when none of his siblings save the Matriarch did?

So, it's tricky. We don't actually have much to compare to, since Melachoate's line is the only known Nictuku line to continue. It's possible that Nictuku traits do get watered down over time, leaving Reremouse and Vole fairly normal (or, uh, Vole, at least! Reremouse is pretty peculiar by modern nights!). Modian and Selene, even more so, Dove, even more so, until she's left with the relatively mild traits of just... liking to drive out in the moonlight and possibly a 'throwback' appearance. It is notable that Reremouse and Vole both seem to lack major claustrophobia, given both still hang out underground.

But yeah. Short version, hard to tell since Melachoate is the only confirmed Nictuku with progeny, so there's no real comparison to be made.

[lots-of-little-pink-clouds]

Izzy sides w/ the Camarilla during Night Road and starts rebuilding the courier network for Dove afterwards. I haven’t named many of the members, but they’re all the other possible Couriers. 

Some that I have in mind are D’Espine’s childe (Toreador). He comes from Dallas to improve relations b/n the two cities (and to also reconnect w/ his sire since there’s still bad blood b/n them b/c of the turf war). There’s also Alex Zhang, a Ravnos Courier, who Izzy met in Santa Monica and became friends w/. The Brujah Courier either met their Final Death during the turf war or was working in Pattermuster’s hospital and joined up w/ the courier network as a favor to their sire.

Then there’s Dove’s childe (Nosferatu), Elin Olivecrona’s childe (Ventrue), and Invidia Caul’s childe (Tremere). The three of them were actually part of a coterie Beau formed before he left Tucson in 2017/2018/early-2019. They were tasked w/ finding Modian (and Aila’s killer, though Beau didn’t tell them that). But their investigation fell to the wayside when they got too close to the truth and Julian led the SI right to Beau’s haven. All of them fled the city and didn’t come back until after the events of Night Road. 

Beau’s the exception to that - he fled the country b/c he’s got the Known Blankbody flaw and the SI were hunting him specifically. Besides, he had business w/ his grand-sire, Catalina la Mirlo, who summoned him through the Madness Network from the frontlines in the Middle East, so it was more of an excuse to leave.

Dove’s childe is very good w/ technology. Elin Olivecrona’s childe is a pretty big guy w/ a deep rumbling voice (that’s actually the only reason Beau recruited him, but he turned out to also be good in a fight so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). Invidia Caul’s childe has her blood sorcery and is kinda scary. She and Olivecrona’s childe are dating.

[jenchwuq]

I decided to bail on Ana’s Night Road playthrough because it was getting pretty dicey, so I started over as Charlotte, and omg.

With Nosferatu, Dove is your sire, therefore your whole bloodline is pretty clear. Reremouse, who’s very clearly stated to be 7th generation, then Modian, then Dove, then you. Clearly making you 10th generation, but from the start, your generation is listed as 9th. Because of the diablerie, I’m assuming? Which is very cool.

I checked the other potential sires’ pages on the wiki, and only Pattermuster had a generation listed; it said he was 10th but. Unless the Brujah protagonist’s generation has been updated, I guess he’s really 11th?

[robotslenderman]

Elisa and Kiwi were Embraced within weeks of each other. Modian was basically the grandparent staying with the parents to help them with their newborn, but generally thinking everything would be fine because they're both responsible vampires so aside from a few bumps he's sure they should have a handle on it.

Yeah no that went to hell in basically five minutes

Dove: SIRE I PUT MY CHILDE IN THE OTHER ROOM WHILE SHE UNDERWENT THE EMBRACE AND NOW SHE'S GONE???? WHAT DO I DO

Kiwi, who's exactly where Dove left her: ????

Modian: did you seriously lose her ALREADY?

Lettow: yeah I left my kid on her driveway and she just went into a hunger Frenzy and massacred her neighbours, mind if I borrow some of your ghouls to clean up the mess?

Modian: Why did you leave her on her driveway? unsupervised?? wtf??

Lettow: it's a Gangrel thing?? she has to fend for herself for three months before I take her in

Modian: but WHY

Lettow: why not?

Modian: do you want an essay?!?

Dove: hello, my baby is missing??

Lettow: yeah mine went AWOL after the massacre but I'm sure she'll turn up eventually. that happens to Gangrel fledglings a lot.

Dove: nvm, found her! she was exactly where I left her all along??

Lettow: just got a phone call from the Prince. my childe picked a fight with a Brujah and murdered him. we're both in trouble now unless I do a few nasty favours for the Prince but I'm -- *wipes tear from eye* -- so proud.

Modian: are you going to supervise her now?

Lettow: why the fuck would I do that

Dove: Shit my childe is missing AGAIN

Lettow: oh crap mine just left another couple of bodies, brb while I cover it up

Modian: ಠ_ಠ

[robotslenderman]

Lettows hiding something. Reremouses line is cain, zilla, absimmillard, androvikas, rasalon and him. That's 6th gen. 2/3 gen is antedeluvian. 4/5 Methuselah. He's one gen away.but Not 7th gen. Which matches up as dove is 8th gen. Her child 9. Diablerie did nothing to You gen wise. My brother said it is because he's old- you become less human. To be honest he's probably not that bad, he was taken up from his nap to go to East and ambushed and staked by lettow, you and julian.I would be cranky too

You’re missing Melachoate! Melachoate was the actual Nictuku, along with Androvikus. The latter must have broken off with the Nictuku at some point (or perhaps Melachoate did) because he told his childe, Rasalon, that not all Nictuku were evil. But he was also assassinated by the Nictuku, which is why I think Androvikus was the one who got away from the Nictuku. Maybe he was never blood bound to Absimiliard -- as powerful as a Methuselah like Melachoate would be, it’d be no mean feat shaking off a blood bond to an Antediluvian.

Anyway the bloodline is this:

Caine (1) Zillah (2) Absimiliard (3) Melachoate (4, he’s the actual Nictuku) Androvikus (5) Rasalon (6)

Which leaves Reremouse (7) Modian (8) Dove (9) and the Courier (10)

So I presume what happened was that Androvikus was Embraced by Melachoate, but for whatever reason not bound to Absimiliard. He had friends in the Nictuku, but had to leave, and was assassinated for it. He told Rasalon about the Nictuku. Rasalon, meanwhile, pretended to not be Nictuku and that he was the grandchilde of Medusa.

We may have Rasalon to thank for Nosferatu solidarity -- it was his life’s mission.

So either Rasalon didn’t tell Reremouse what their lineage truly was, or Reremouse never told Modian.

[robotslenderman]

Kiwi fic excerpt that will probably be cut.

“Do we need to talk with her about the Masquerade?” said the cosplayer, Modian.

“Nah,” said the Polish guy. “I’m sure Charles has it handled. He’s discreet. Even the ones that don’t know about it keep their mouths shut because their regnants just tell them to.”

“Charlie’s an asshole,” said Kiwi.

Now they noticed her. The Polish guy looked amused, eagle preening itself on his shoulder. “Sure you want that getting back to him?”

“What are you going to do, dob me in?” said Kiwi.

“Dob?” said Modian, frowning.

“Sounds Australian,” said the Polish guy. “Mulgrew’s Australian. Has a similar accent, but more American. She said her father’s American.”

“He’s not going to be a problem, is he?”

“No. He’s in Australia with her mother.”

“I’m from New Zealand,” said Kiwi. “Name’s Kiwi.”

“Are their accents similar?” said Modian, as if she wasn’t there. “Because that sounds very Australian. I had to work with one of Sarrasine’s people once and he sounded like Crocodile Dundee.”

“Who’s that?”

“That’s exactly what the guy said when I mentioned it. They don’t have Crocodile Dundee in Australia.”

“What’s that? Some TV show? I don’t watch TV. I don’t know how to change the channel.”

“It is, yeah. Have you tried using the remote?”

“The what?”

[robotslenderman]

Forgot about malchiate. Whatever he called. My mind is thinking about the dwarf hamsters I'm getting today. :) yeah I remember now. I think androvikas and rasalon both pretended to be from the matriach. So the nossie would listen to them or something. So modian just thought he was too?

Given how much he freaked out about Dove’s appearance to the point he thought Dove was somehow magically not his childe despite being there, I presume Modian was in ignorance about his Nictuku heritage.

[robotslenderman]

If I remember correctly, Dove comes from a niktuku lineage but isn't niktuku herself. It's a bloodline with strange quirks.

They Can only eat kindred blood, the one with a weakness we know of (nukeleve and running water) is a folkloric bane and when embraced they are stupidly beautiful and get uglier as they age (very unlike Nosferatu who become ugly and get even more ugly).

Best way to think of it is that the matriarch and Baba yaga are from absimilard like the niktuku but are Nosferatu instead.

Which is why she's ugly and doesn't eat kindred. Her sires just a dick.

Unless they have retconned the niktuku just for night road.

Honestly I think it could still work within the lore established for Nictuku because "omg!!! they eat people!!! THEY EAT BABIES!!!" is a popular pre-modern propaganda for enemies. It would not surprise me at all if Nictuku being cannibals was a complete lie, or just a myth. It could simply be that the Nictuku don't have the same taboo around diablerie and everyone else freaked out and took that as being the same thing as a "requirement." Or maybe you only require vitae while you have an active blood bond with Absimilliard, which I can't imagine every single Nictuku descendant has. It may be that being blood bound to an Antediluvian does fucky things to your biology regardless of bloodline.

However I do believe that if Dove really was just a normal Nosferatu who happened to be a genetic throwback, the game wouldn't be emphasising her ugliness so much. She's said to be hideous even by Nosferatu standards, and the game goes out of its way to explicitly state her lineage, so I think it's quite deliberate. In fact, part of her backstory is that her sire, Modian, found her so ugly that he abandoned her on the spot. His official excuse was that she "wasn't really his", but like, dude, he was there when she was Embraced, he knew that was bullshit. My thinking is that Dove resembled their Nictuku ancestors more than he did, he was terrified it'd reveal his ancestry, and so he tried to distance himself from her as much as possible. I cannot remember explicitly, but he might have even been the one that set the Giovanni on Dove, which screams "cover up." But take that with a grain of salt, that might have only been implied and the author might not have intended that implication.

Reremouse, though, is the odd one out as he likes to chill underground and Nictuku are supposed to be claustrophobic (plus I just found out he's the brother of a character from another CoG game who hangs out in sewers and doesn't seem to be distressed by it). I'd love to know more about him. Despite Dove's shitty relationship with Modian she seems to be a lot closer to Reremouse in that she actively keeps him fed, and is genuinely distressed at the thought of his destruction. Plus the game strongly implies he's not a Wight but he's prone to Wight-like rampages? Dying to know the story behind that.

And honestly the Nictuku thing would explain why Dove doesn't seem to be attached to a Warren at all. There's zero mention of any Nosferatu in Tucson aside from Dove and her relatives. That might be because the Old Prince of Tucson massacred them, but Dove doesn't seem to be in a hurry to re-establish a Warren 10+ years later. But again, her grandsire and great-uncle like to chill underground, so that might not mean anything.

[robotslenderman]

Perry and Elisa headcanons:

Elisa thinks it's weird that a Nosferatu Thinblood has a Hecata-like bite, but it's Dove who, due to her experiences with Modian, immediately realises that Perry is a full blooded Samedi. When Dove raised the possibility that Perry might be Cappadocian to Elisa, she was worried they'd have to protect him from the Hecata (and that Dove would refuse to extend that protection because of the treaty), but Dove said "nah, he's Samedi, he's Hecata. He probably has that bane as the equivalent of a genetic throwback - sometimes that happens." (Dove would know.) Much relief ensues and Elisa helps Perry learn about the Samedi and Hecata, and even gets him in touch with a couple over time.

Elisa is pretty casual about the smell. She mentions it and she doesn't pretend it's not there either. "I'd hug you, Perry, but it's three AM and you smell like shit so I'll hug you first thing tonight." Perry is a bit defensive/standoffish at first but comes to appreciate it over outright hostility and/or when people "politely" pretend it's not there while obviously not wanting to deal with it.

For example, when Elisa gives him a room in her haven she'll be upfront about the fact she's using sheet/pillow protectors to stop him leaking on stuff, a room with no carpet so the smell doesn't get stuck in it, an ensuite so he can clean himself off easily... but unlike most, you know, she's actually offering a bed instead of pretending she doesn't have a place for him to stay, and she's also pretty "yeah you smell like shit in the morning but I'm just gonna have to deal with that." He's not sure what to think about this attitude in the beginning.

Elisa also teaches him to weaponise the smell. "You just met someone? Be considerate. Insist on meeting your contacts outdoors early on in the night, and standing downwind from them. They get difficult? That's when you start visiting them in their office an hour before dawn and sitting in their chairs and leaking on their upholstery. They'll soon get the idea that you're someone they want the goodwill of - and that's invaluable. Most fledglings have to work really, really hard to have that kind of power over somebody and all YOU have to do is change what time you're meeting someone. Use that."

The above point pretty much drove home to him that yeah she hates the smell, but not HIM, and she's willing to work with it. He develops a crush on her after that.

He does make a move when he's more confident, a few years later. She turns him down and at first he's pretty self loathing over it but they have an open discussion about the smell and she's like, "look, if I had feelings for you I'd just work with that - sexy stuff first thing after dusk when you're at your best. But I'm not going to pretend I'm interested when I'm not out of pity because we both deserve better. I'm sorry I hurt you but I can't say yes to this, not when I wouldn't mean it."

He got over it rather quickly, to his own surprise.

He has his own car. He calls it the Corpsemobile. When he gets the opportunity he loves to give people ultimatums - "either I ride with you and stink up your car, or you can ride in mine. And mine smells worse than the state I'd leave your car in."

Elisa helps set him up with a good ghoul - someone who runs a small mortuary. Puts a small mattress in one of the shelves, actually makes a nice comfortable haven out of it. It being a mortuary means the smell isn't suspicious, and he just pretends to the staff that he has a medical condition and its way less hassle to sleep in one of their drawers.

Getting the corpse stink out of his clothes is almost impossible so he's ALWAYS going through fresh clothes. Elisa helps set him up with another ghoul that can give him a steady supply of shirts, underwear and pants.

He hates getting pulled over because the second a cop gets a whiff of the interior of his car they think he's got a body in the trunk. Elisa uses her connection with Dove to get him a third ghoul in the police force, but when he's not in Tucson he's SOOL there.

He has discovered that maggots actually keep the smell down, as they eat away at the rot, so when he starts rotting a few hours after dusk, he applies maggots to the areas he sees are starting to deteriorate and wraps them in bandages. The smell doesn't go away completely but it does make a difference.

When he's outside of Tucson and a cop insists on searching his car, he peels away a bandage and says "actually, that smell is me." He also has a bunch of fake medical paperwork so that they don't insist on taking him to the hospital - he says he's on antibiotics and the maggots prevent the gangrene from killing him, and because of that he doesn't have to stay in hospital.

He knows a lot of facts about maggot therapy to make it convincing. In reality I'm pretty sure that gangrene is not something that you can be an outpatient for but most cops aren't going to know that if he can be convincing enough.

Once, he was travelling with Harley in the front passenger seat when they got pulled over in the early hours. He played dead as Harley desperately tried to get him to wake up to prove to the increasingly freaked out cop that he was alive and just had a "medical condition". After calling for backup and getting Harley on the floor, when the cop opened the side door Perry went "BOO!"

The cop shot him.

They had to kill the cop and bury the body to preserve the Masquerade before backup got there, because while they can cover up Perry's clan bane with "it's a medical condition", it's a lot harder to cover up a bullet through the chest.

Perry thought it was hilarious. Harley, who's a lot more squeamish about killing innocent humans and destroying the lives of their families and loved ones for the lulz, didn't think it was funny at all.

(Elisa backs up Harley but privately also thinks it's hilarious, except for the bit where they had to kill the cop. "It's one thing to kill to protect ourselves, it's one thing to kill because we're hunters eating our prey, but it's completely another to set up a human to die for your own amusement. Don't do that again."

"I didn't kill her for the lols, I just didn't think she'd -"

"SHE WAS A COP OF COURSE SHE WAS GOING TO FUCKING SHOOT YOU, YOU DUMBASS.")

Yeah, that prank did damage his relationship with Harley for a while.

BUT sadistic prank notwithstanding, he actually has a pretty good relationship with Harley. Harley wasn't sure about the stinky Samedi at first, but was too much the southern gentleman to be anything but polite about it. He quickly got used to it and saw Perry for the lost kid he was. Because Harley was in his forties when he was Embraced, he was pretty calm and difficult to faze, so he was able to rub off on Perry and help calm him down over time.

Perry and Harley were both furious at Lettow when Lettow came back to Tucson. The way Harlow saw it, putting Elisa through her First Season was completely unnecessary and Lettow could have properly vetted her, and also a huge risk to the Masquerade. The way Perry saw it, if someone of a different clan can put her own life on the line (due to the Accounting) to take in a complete stranger who'd been a Masquerade issue for nothing in return, the least Lettow could have done was look after his own fucking childe.

They were even less impressed when Elisa got sexually involved with him and then romantically, because they saw it as Elisa wanting the security of having a sire and Lettow exploiting that. Elisa, meanwhile, didn't appreciate being infantilised. She defended Lettow because "he kept an eye on me from a distance", and he left caches for her to discover and arranged for her to have jobs when the courier jobs started drying up. Harley and Perry were like "gee, how generous of him."

Perry was like "if I knew her standards were that fucking low I'd have asked her if she'd changed her mind about not going out with me"

Lettow was on thin fucking ice with the two of them for a while, and it took time for them to realise his feelings for her were sincere and that he wasn't going to abandon her again. In the meantime he rarely took their bait and let their attacks and accusations roll off his back - as an elder he rarely took things personally, understood it was between Elisa and her childer, and wanted to respect that she wanted to maintain some peace. Part of it was also due to guilt and self loathing. But he was also glad she had two very protective childer to watch her back, since he knew that safety and support was very important to her.

Harley and Perry also threatened to Fight Him, which caused Elisa to double facepalm bc one, Men, and two, elder with super strength and fortitude. Lettow just thought it was funny but also took the opportunity to bait them on being young and rash. He didn't resist ALL the time.

Lettow and Perry would never be close, but they came to respect the place the other had in Elisa's life, and even came to rely on each other every now and then.

[ryttu3k]

you seem to be one of the resident night road experts lol so i was wondering if you had a timeline for julian being the pc's sire (or adoptive sire). like what year did was the pc embraced by him, when they started working for the camarilla together, when julian left and came back, etc. it's all a bit confusing.

Okay, so best way to go about this is with the flashbacks! We have the following:

March 2001: The former Prince of Tucson punishes a Gangrel whose childe broke the masquerade (triggers when you first, well, break the Masquerade)

January 2002: Julian eats someone, the BH Courier learns about tasty, tasty vitae (triggers when they first drink from another vampire)

August 2005: Julian and the Courier discuss Gandhi in Civilisation while a random Malk tries to hide a body (triggers at first Messy Critical)

February 2006: Julian makes a torturous Alien vs Predator analogy (triggers when you first kill someone)

April 2007: Julian describes the Beast (scripted, when encountering Modian)

I'm almost positive there was one from November 1999, precisely twenty years before the game starts, but I can't seem to find it now.

Another mention of 2007 - in the Reremouse, mentions maps of the Courier and Julian's movements in 2007 when they were first doing the bottled water thing.

The game is set in November 2019, as confirmed by Kyle. The Courier has been... a courier for ten years (mention of the Honda at the start being 'your companion for ten lonely years', 'you've been making these courier runs for ten years'). Aila was also diablerised ten years ago - 'You know what was in that warehouse ten years ago', "Why don't you come inside and tell me what you did here ten years ago." The Journal section also confirms that Aila's diablerie was ten years ago: 'Aila: A powerful Daughter of Haqim. You consumed her, Blood and soul, ten years ago.' That puts both her diablerie and the Courier and Julian parting ways at 2009.

Working with Julian: no specific year given, but given the mention in the Reremouse chapter, probably 2007-8. This is the text you get playing Banu Haqim:

"This was before you had any money, before you were the right hand of a venture capitalist/scientist/sorcerer. In those first nights, the two of you shared a trailer on the Arizona-New Mexico border. And the Banu Haqim elders had work for you: they wanted to gain a foothold in the New World by allying with the Camarilla—the most influential of the Cainites' secret societies.

The elders ordered you to serve the Princes of the Camarilla, and the Princes put you to work."

and

"A hot desert wind whipped Julian's black hair around his head as he counted the gallons of water. The Camarilla gave you a job they considered necessary, even vital. Desperate migrants stumbled through this part of the desert, fleeing violence in Mexico and Central America for the promise of a better life in the States. Without water, many died. Aid groups dropped water and supplies for the migrants.

The year before, the Camarilla had infiltrated and supplanted one of those aid groups, replacing their members with…you and Julian. Your job: position the water above the scattered lairs of the Nosferatu elder, the one known only as Reremouse. The victims he claimed would give him enough blood to prevent his full awakening."

So, best I can determine: November 1999 if I’m remembering that flashback right, otherwise some time prior to early 2001, for when the Courier was Embraced. Stayed together for several years. Worked for the Camarilla some time around 2007, for at least a year. Presumably he leaves, then later returns in 2009 for Aila’s diablerie, and takes off again after. The Courier starts working as, uh, a Courier soon after.

If anyone has flashbacks from earlier (like that dang November 1999 one!), please reblog and put me out of my misery XD;;

[robotslenderman]

WIP Wednesday

“Callie-boy!” Awww, fuck, he’d attracted the attention of the pair of Toreador fussing over each other’s clothes. Thomas Arturo brightened and flitted over, leaving a giddy Athanasios to watch. “It’s been years!”

“It’s been like three months.” Calebros glanced past him to Athanasios, who looked thrilled to be watching this interaction. The copper-haired man looked more genuinely pleased than malicious. Cal’s not-grandchilde was convinced that Athanasios was either genuinely nice or the biggest idiot that ever made it close to Harpy status in New York City. Cal suspected the latter, because Athanasios had been looking for Vykos ever since he’d arrived. “Where’s Panhard? I need to see her, it’s urgent.”

“Mister Calebros!” chirped Athanasios, his eyes full of joy in a way that tended to make most people want to vomit. Yeah, Calebros hated this guy already, even though they’d never spoken. “She’s speaking to the representative from Los Angeles. Have you met Oliver Stonecreek, yet? He’s the new Prince’s childe — “

“Looks like there’s been a lot of turnover for Princes lately.” Modian reappeared at Calebros’s shoulder. “Athanasios, I’m Modian from Tucson. Pleased to meet you.”

“Charmed!” Athanasios looked completely unfazed that he was talking to a Nosferatu. “Just call me Elias.”

“Was it the Tucson Prince that died after having a tree sent through his chest?” said Arturo, determined not to be left out, Nosferatu or not. “Or was that LaCroix? They both got destroyed so close to each other I honestly can't tell their fates apart.”

There she was! Right beside the refreshment table, speaking to a kid in a suit.

“No, no, that was ours,” said Modian. “LaCroix was executed by the Tremere. Lettow — sorry, Prince Lettow destroyed our old prince. Massive stake. It was mounted on top of a Rolls Royce, and — “

Calebros pushed his way through, zeroing in on Panhard. The boy she spoke to looked twelve and gave Tremere vibes — Calebros wasn’t quite sure why — but knowing their kind, could be centuries old. The boy casually took a glass of blood from the table, sipping it as he listened in what could be genuine fascination —

Wait, Stonecreek? Oh, that was why he was getting Tremere vibes. Stonecreek was in his fifties, right? Although somebody had said something about there being a new Prince in LA, and if it was Stonecreek’s sire that left Maximillian Strauss as the only possible Prince.

It had… been a while since he’d been in touch.

[ryttu3k]

thanky ou so so much for answering my ask! that makes actually sense. I really thought that Julain didn't give two flying crackers about you, but maybe he did; he just doesn't express it in a normal way. Although I still have somewhat my doubts. But at the end, you don't end up like Z, so that means something. And I sometimes wonder what Z's backstory is, too. It's also strange that Julian didn't seize the opportunity to groom Z as his new apprentice of sorts and not making the same "mistakes"

he made with you. I also realised that the player is technially Julian's only true ally/friend/focal point. He killed Jasper, an ally of his, he planned and sent the entire SI to Tuscon in order to take Lettow down and destabilize the Camarilla's hold there, even after he and Lettow somewhat became... luke warm friends in the end? But then again, he constantly risks the player's life, too, so there's that. And you know what the funniest thing is? Julian is a hypocrite through and through. From what I understood is that Julian looked up to Jasper in a sense. After all, they worked together and he does somewhat speak fondly of him in a way (just a tadbit though). He claims that he was so disgusted with Jasper's experiments that he had to kill him in the end, and he does seem sincere in that, but Julian does literally the same thing. He experiments on us, on other vamps like Z, and is even cool to work with Invidia Caul, who is also despised by other Kindred for her experiments. Is this cognitive dissonance or is he just lying through his teeth after all?

Oh, I forgot to mention that Julian seeking Invida's help is also weird because he knows that 1) Jasper financed he work (which shows that Invidia and Jasper have the same "moral" compass even for Kindred) and 2) she and Jasper were friends I believe. And I have no doubts that Julian knows this. Quite frankly, I believe he was disgusted by him in a sense, but at the end, he might not have liked competition or regarded him as possible future opposition and wanted to get rid of him quickly.

Yeah, it’s a complicated situation! Julian is definitely not a straightforward character - the read I get on him is that he’s trying too much, juggling too many balls, and thinks he’s better at it than he actually is. He also has a vested interest in being... well, better than others. No one is asking about 2100 and beyond, but he is. No one is as smart as he is. No one knows as much of what’s going on as he does. No one can play games with the SI like he does. Goddammit now I have Gaston stuck in my head. Here’s a bit from the Scheffler chapter:

You pull into the storage facility and do what you're told. The new phone is another disposable burner. Julian, you realize, isn't hiding from the Second Inquisition. He's using what they think they know to move them around the board, in a game you don't fully understand.

So his work with Jasper, that’s an interesting one because consider what Jasper is doing. He’s trying to push the limits of the vampire mind. He’s able to bring Lampago up to a point where she’s much more intelligent and aware, less bestial. He’s not able to succeed with Modian, but he was trying something similar there - break him down to the status of wight, then try to restore him.

Now, consider Julian’s aims with the 2100 formula. It’s meant to push the limits of the vampire mind and body. He and Jasper are actually extremely similar in what they’re working on, and I do wonder if this gave Julian a bit of disquiet when he realises how messed up the experimentation with Modian was.

Julian is a Banu Haqim. When he explains to the Courier why he killed Jasper, he addresses this directly:

Julian leans against his Fisker, then says, "You should know the truth. I killed that Usurper."

"For his crimes?" The Tremere are given relatively free reign, but torturing Nosferatu until they turn into wights is definitely outside whatever laws bind them to the Camarilla.

"Well, you and I have a complicated relationship to 'crimes,' don't we, Pyre? But yes, I suppose so. I may not be much of a vampire, but I'm still a Child of Haqim, and our work is to judge the unrighteous."

There's that wild gleam in Julian's eyes again. Some nights it seems like Julian Sim couldn't be a worse representative of his religion, or of the larger cultural complex that surrounds and sustains Clan Banu Haqim. And some nights your sire looks like the Angel of Death.

So he’s still very much from the Clan of Judges. Let’s say he’s starting to feel guilty - he’s a Judge, and here he’s judging himself. By taking out that guilt on Jasper, he can tell himself, “Well, what I’m doing isn’t so bad after all. And see, I’m still judging the unrighteous - I killed Jasper for his crimes. If I can feel compelled to stop Jasper, then surely what I’m doing can’t be that bad?”

I think you’re right in calling it cognitive dissonance. He can’t feel bad about what he’s doing, it’s for the future, and look! He punished Jasper, right? His moral compass is still correct, right? Sure, he experimented on the Courier and on Z, but at least they’re not wights, right?

If he judges Jasper, he clears his own conscience.

(As for Invidia, I actually don’t think her experiments were nearly as bad. She was working on making clones and experimenting on sheep to find a stable, reproduceable, ethical source of blood. The clones were only of questionable intelligence in the first place (they don’t seem to... react to much, seem pretty mindless) and, well, I personally don’t like animal experimentation but then I am vegan, so XD;; She was kind of a horrible person, mostly in her violence in lashing out against others and in blood binding Giselle, but the experiments itself were definitely a lesser evil than ‘torturing people until they turn into wights’.)

[robotslenderman]

Before-bed snip

“Prince Panhard!” Calebros shoved his way through a cluster of offended Ventrue. “I need to speak with you. Urgently. I have news.” “Ooooh!” Modian had followed him. “It’s never good when a Nosferatu crashes a party with that line.” “Shut up, Nictuku.” Cal didn’t turn around. “Oh, now you believe me — “

[robotslenderman]

Modian survived the gas station in Nox's playthrough so in the Reremouse mission Nox totally blurted out, "Two Nosferatu penises in one week! GODDAMMIT LETTOW WHY ARE YOU INFLICTING THIS ON ME"

Don’t you love how VTMNR has not just one, but two naked Nosferatu? That’s right, the Courier has seen two Nosferatu penises.

You’re welcome.

[missn11]

@robotslenderman the real reason Modian became a wight before the beginning of Night Road.

Elisa and Kiwi were Embraced within weeks of each other. Modian was basically the grandparent staying with the parents to help them with their newborn, but generally thinking everything would be fine because they're both responsible vampires so aside from a few bumps he's sure they should have a handle on it.

Yeah no that went to hell in basically five minutes

Dove: SIRE I PUT MY CHILDE IN THE OTHER ROOM WHILE SHE UNDERWENT THE EMBRACE AND NOW SHE'S GONE???? WHAT DO I DO

Kiwi, who's exactly where Dove left her: ????

Modian: did you seriously lose her ALREADY?

Lettow: yeah I left my kid on her driveway and she just went into a hunger Frenzy and massacred her neighbours, mind if I borrow some of your ghouls to clean up the mess?

Modian: Why did you leave her on her driveway? unsupervised?? wtf??

Lettow: it's a Gangrel thing?? she has to fend for herself for three months before I take her in

Modian: but WHY

Lettow: why not?

Modian: do you want an essay?!?

Dove: hello, my baby is missing??

Lettow: yeah mine went AWOL after the massacre but I'm sure she'll turn up eventually. that happens to Gangrel fledglings a lot.

Dove: nvm, found her! she was exactly where I left her all along??

Lettow: just got a phone call from the Prince. my childe picked a fight with a Brujah and murdered him. we're both in trouble now unless I do a few nasty favours for the Prince but I'm -- *wipes tear from eye* -- so proud.

Modian: are you going to supervise her now?

Lettow: why the fuck would I do that

Dove: Shit my childe is missing AGAIN

Lettow: oh crap mine just left another couple of bodies, brb while I cover it up

Modian: ಠ_ಠ